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	<title>Comments on: Where have all the Consequences gone?</title>
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		<title>By: Jinno</title>
		<link>http://wiseconservatism.com/2008/05/10/where-have-all-the-consequences-gone/#comment-6845</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jinno]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elwoodin.wordpress.com/?p=364#comment-6845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;because of the idea of Separation of Church and State, which by the way was never in the Constitution as they (the liberals and democrats) so love to say.&quot;

Considering that the highest authority regarding interpretation of the Constitution is the Supreme Court (as per the Constitution, mind you), legal precedents suggest otherwise, Robert. 

The Supreme Court has time and time again favored the Separation of Church and State as part of the Establishment Clause. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/church-state/decisions.html

Thomas Jefferson&#039;s own interpretation of the establishment clause is as such &quot;Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their &quot;legislature&quot; should &quot;make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,&quot; thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.&quot; 

Our earliest leaders supported the idea of Separation of Church and State, at the very least on the Federal Level. So don&#039;t say that it&#039;s un-American or not in the Constitution that this Separation exists.

And while there may be some cases (I googled the issue and found like 4 examples of Airports and Colleges doing this) the cost of something as simple as a footbath is likely not nearly as much as the cost of some of the ornately decorated Christmas Trees (a religious event, mind you... a direct financing of Christian memorabilia.) In what way is the implementation of a &lt;i&gt;footbath&lt;/i&gt; which would be open for public use, going to be as direct a violation as tax payer dollars for an explicitly religious monument?

As for the spanking of children, thing ... there&#039;s multiple sides to look at here. In most cases, spanking is not that large an issue. It&#039;s simple discipline, indeed. I&#039;m all for spanking as a punishment, as opposed to a time out, which from my own experience, just bored me out of my mind for 15 minutes. But, there are some parents who are explicitly violent about it, who are truly abusing children rather than punishing them.

Your friends may not have been such a case, but children are saved from bad homes in many such cases. You have to weigh out the benefits of such programs with the negatives of them, and then trust defense lawyers to properly doing their job. In the case of your friends, they did not, or you didn&#039;t observe the punishments as having the effects that they did. The children may have had certain bruises and such that were legally the level of abuse.

Things happen, but unfortunately, laws must be widely applicable, and carefully balanced. Your example is just one that needs some reform, and could use more balancing and fine tuning.

But far be it from me to be able to convince you of being wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;because of the idea of Separation of Church and State, which by the way was never in the Constitution as they (the liberals and democrats) so love to say.&#8221;</p>
<p>Considering that the highest authority regarding interpretation of the Constitution is the Supreme Court (as per the Constitution, mind you), legal precedents suggest otherwise, Robert. </p>
<p>The Supreme Court has time and time again favored the Separation of Church and State as part of the Establishment Clause. <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/church-state/decisions.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/church-state/decisions.html</a></p>
<p>Thomas Jefferson&#8217;s own interpretation of the establishment clause is as such &#8220;Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their &#8220;legislature&#8221; should &#8220;make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,&#8221; thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.&#8221; </p>
<p>Our earliest leaders supported the idea of Separation of Church and State, at the very least on the Federal Level. So don&#8217;t say that it&#8217;s un-American or not in the Constitution that this Separation exists.</p>
<p>And while there may be some cases (I googled the issue and found like 4 examples of Airports and Colleges doing this) the cost of something as simple as a footbath is likely not nearly as much as the cost of some of the ornately decorated Christmas Trees (a religious event, mind you&#8230; a direct financing of Christian memorabilia.) In what way is the implementation of a <i>footbath</i> which would be open for public use, going to be as direct a violation as tax payer dollars for an explicitly religious monument?</p>
<p>As for the spanking of children, thing &#8230; there&#8217;s multiple sides to look at here. In most cases, spanking is not that large an issue. It&#8217;s simple discipline, indeed. I&#8217;m all for spanking as a punishment, as opposed to a time out, which from my own experience, just bored me out of my mind for 15 minutes. But, there are some parents who are explicitly violent about it, who are truly abusing children rather than punishing them.</p>
<p>Your friends may not have been such a case, but children are saved from bad homes in many such cases. You have to weigh out the benefits of such programs with the negatives of them, and then trust defense lawyers to properly doing their job. In the case of your friends, they did not, or you didn&#8217;t observe the punishments as having the effects that they did. The children may have had certain bruises and such that were legally the level of abuse.</p>
<p>Things happen, but unfortunately, laws must be widely applicable, and carefully balanced. Your example is just one that needs some reform, and could use more balancing and fine tuning.</p>
<p>But far be it from me to be able to convince you of being wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: elwoodin</title>
		<link>http://wiseconservatism.com/2008/05/10/where-have-all-the-consequences-gone/#comment-6840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[elwoodin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 19:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elwoodin.wordpress.com/?p=364#comment-6840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The PC meaning Politically Correct, IS a Liberal Idea.  Just because the Republicans are caving in to the ideas of it means nothing.  It just means they are caving in. 

I as a Conservative, believe that Liberalism is what is wrong with America today.  I have watched the Democrats over the last 40 years, slowly take the rights away from people for the PC part of making the world a better place to live in.  It doesn&#039;t.  All it does is give the government more power over you and me and takes more and more of our liberties away from us.  And it draws on stupidity to reign.  

Like Obama on Memorial day saying,  and I quote:
&quot;On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors it&#039;s unbroken line of fallen heroes, and I see many of them here in the audience today, our sense of patriotism is particularly strong.&quot;  

Now, can you see what is wrong with that quote?  If not let me tell you.  The stupid things are, this was no blunder told by him, not thinking as he said the speech.  His speech was written by writers, who then give it to him to check and proof to make sure that it says what HE WANTED IT TO SAY.  The stupid things are that the media didn&#039;t pick up on it, though they would have if he had been President Bush.  The stupid thing in those lines?  Memorial day is a day set aside to honor the men and women of our military who have fallen and DIED in service of their country.  Now, if they are dead, how could he be seeing many of them in the audience?  His many many guffaws  don&#039;t seem to even interest the press....who, if they were said by McCain or Bush, they would be all over them like stink on a skunk.  Liberals, cannot say anything good about America, because to them, America is to blame for everything, and the troops are not their favorite things in the world.  If you don&#039;t believe me, then look at President Bush&#039;s last two speeches, which were good ones by the way, and look at how the liberal media tore them up.  The liberals will tear up a Republican, even though Republicans are caving in to the whims of the Democrats and the liberals.  But let a Republican do the same to a lib?  All hell will break loose because then the Republicans are not playing fair....even though it is the same thing the Democrats do.  

&lt;em&gt;The difference between Liberals and Conservatives?  
&lt;/em&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;Liberals hate America.&lt;/strong&gt;  Everything in the world that is wrong, is America&#039;s fault.  Liberals will listen to what the enemy of America will say and believe them...but will &lt;strong&gt;NOT&lt;/strong&gt; believe our troops, or our side of the story when told.  &lt;strong&gt;Liberals have been trying for decades to take God out of our society&lt;/strong&gt;, by making laws to prevent Christians from doing anything because of the idea of Separation of Church and State, which by the way was never in the Constitution as they (the liberals and democrats) so love to say.  Liberalism, makes new laws to make it easier for Anything but a Christian to have what they want in society.  Foot Baths for Muslims are being build on Taxpayer money, but Crosses that have been on hills for decades are always in a fight to remain, because someone is always offended.  What about the Christians who are offended because footbaths are being build for Muslims on their dollar?  No, that wouldn&#039;t even matter to the libs.  I could go on and on with this.....but what would it matter.  You wouldn&#039;t understand anyway.  Common sense is dead to a liberal.

And to finish....if you spank your daughter when she is bad....good for you....maybe you aren&#039;t as much a liberal as you think.  Consequences have to be there for a person to grow up and know the difference between right and wrong.  You know this....so there is hope.  You still have common sense.

-Robert-]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The PC meaning Politically Correct, IS a Liberal Idea.  Just because the Republicans are caving in to the ideas of it means nothing.  It just means they are caving in. </p>
<p>I as a Conservative, believe that Liberalism is what is wrong with America today.  I have watched the Democrats over the last 40 years, slowly take the rights away from people for the PC part of making the world a better place to live in.  It doesn&#8217;t.  All it does is give the government more power over you and me and takes more and more of our liberties away from us.  And it draws on stupidity to reign.  </p>
<p>Like Obama on Memorial day saying,  and I quote:<br />
&#8220;On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors it&#8217;s unbroken line of fallen heroes, and I see many of them here in the audience today, our sense of patriotism is particularly strong.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Now, can you see what is wrong with that quote?  If not let me tell you.  The stupid things are, this was no blunder told by him, not thinking as he said the speech.  His speech was written by writers, who then give it to him to check and proof to make sure that it says what HE WANTED IT TO SAY.  The stupid things are that the media didn&#8217;t pick up on it, though they would have if he had been President Bush.  The stupid thing in those lines?  Memorial day is a day set aside to honor the men and women of our military who have fallen and DIED in service of their country.  Now, if they are dead, how could he be seeing many of them in the audience?  His many many guffaws  don&#8217;t seem to even interest the press&#8230;.who, if they were said by McCain or Bush, they would be all over them like stink on a skunk.  Liberals, cannot say anything good about America, because to them, America is to blame for everything, and the troops are not their favorite things in the world.  If you don&#8217;t believe me, then look at President Bush&#8217;s last two speeches, which were good ones by the way, and look at how the liberal media tore them up.  The liberals will tear up a Republican, even though Republicans are caving in to the whims of the Democrats and the liberals.  But let a Republican do the same to a lib?  All hell will break loose because then the Republicans are not playing fair&#8230;.even though it is the same thing the Democrats do.  </p>
<p><em>The difference between Liberals and Conservatives?<br />
</em><br />
<strong>Liberals hate America.</strong>  Everything in the world that is wrong, is America&#8217;s fault.  Liberals will listen to what the enemy of America will say and believe them&#8230;but will <strong>NOT</strong> believe our troops, or our side of the story when told.  <strong>Liberals have been trying for decades to take God out of our society</strong>, by making laws to prevent Christians from doing anything because of the idea of Separation of Church and State, which by the way was never in the Constitution as they (the liberals and democrats) so love to say.  Liberalism, makes new laws to make it easier for Anything but a Christian to have what they want in society.  Foot Baths for Muslims are being build on Taxpayer money, but Crosses that have been on hills for decades are always in a fight to remain, because someone is always offended.  What about the Christians who are offended because footbaths are being build for Muslims on their dollar?  No, that wouldn&#8217;t even matter to the libs.  I could go on and on with this&#8230;..but what would it matter.  You wouldn&#8217;t understand anyway.  Common sense is dead to a liberal.</p>
<p>And to finish&#8230;.if you spank your daughter when she is bad&#8230;.good for you&#8230;.maybe you aren&#8217;t as much a liberal as you think.  Consequences have to be there for a person to grow up and know the difference between right and wrong.  You know this&#8230;.so there is hope.  You still have common sense.</p>
<p>-Robert-</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://wiseconservatism.com/2008/05/10/where-have-all-the-consequences-gone/#comment-6839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 18:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elwoodin.wordpress.com/?p=364#comment-6839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why do you have to call PC &quot;liberal&quot; rhetoric....the PC-ization is happening from both sides of the aisle albeit in different ways.  I read your blog daily because it is interesting, but I am VERY liberal, yet my mom whooped my butt when I needed it and I do the same with my daughter.  I don&#039;t think that the encroaching angle of government trying to enforce PC are simply liberal though......if you spank you get CPS called, if you speak out against Iraq they wiretap you phones, if you use a term someone might find offensive toward EITHER side (conservative OR liberal) you get beat around on blogs.......isn&#039;t talking about &quot;tired of all the liberal rhetoric&quot; enforcing an equally PC (or anti-PC) restriction on debate/conversation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you have to call PC &#8220;liberal&#8221; rhetoric&#8230;.the PC-ization is happening from both sides of the aisle albeit in different ways.  I read your blog daily because it is interesting, but I am VERY liberal, yet my mom whooped my butt when I needed it and I do the same with my daughter.  I don&#8217;t think that the encroaching angle of government trying to enforce PC are simply liberal though&#8230;&#8230;if you spank you get CPS called, if you speak out against Iraq they wiretap you phones, if you use a term someone might find offensive toward EITHER side (conservative OR liberal) you get beat around on blogs&#8230;&#8230;.isn&#8217;t talking about &#8220;tired of all the liberal rhetoric&#8221; enforcing an equally PC (or anti-PC) restriction on debate/conversation?</p>
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		<title>By: Seane-Anna</title>
		<link>http://wiseconservatism.com/2008/05/10/where-have-all-the-consequences-gone/#comment-6821</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seane-Anna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elwoodin.wordpress.com/?p=364#comment-6821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another great post, Robert!  I just hope people will wake up before things get worse.  And they can get worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great post, Robert!  I just hope people will wake up before things get worse.  And they can get worse.</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://wiseconservatism.com/2008/05/10/where-have-all-the-consequences-gone/#comment-6820</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 16:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elwoodin.wordpress.com/?p=364#comment-6820</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I totally agree with you!!!  Children are not taught to respect anyone or anything.  It is no wonder that there is so much crime in the country.  
There wouldn&#039;t be so many lazy people wanting to live off the government had they learned responsibility and disipline when they were young.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you!!!  Children are not taught to respect anyone or anything.  It is no wonder that there is so much crime in the country.<br />
There wouldn&#8217;t be so many lazy people wanting to live off the government had they learned responsibility and disipline when they were young.</p>
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